Dr. James Reese, School Member, Practicum Coordinator & Group Relations, Sports Management & Esports and
Amanda Windsor-White, President of Rugby ATL ; APU alumna
What’s a profession within the main leagues like? How welcome are girls, actually? And, once they get there, how far can they go? APU’s Dr. Jim Reese talks to APU alumna and Rugby ATL president, Amanda Windsor-White, who solutions all these questions, and extra.
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Dr. Jim Reese: Hiya everybody, I’m Jim Reese, Coordinator of Internships and Group Relations for the Sports activities Administration and eSports program at APU. That is the second of two podcasts in our sequence, Women in Sports: Charting A Path. I’m actually excited to introduce you to a former pupil, Amanda Windsor White, president of Rugby ATL. Good afternoon, Amanda.
Amanda White: Hiya, Dr. Reese.
Jim Reese: How are you?
Amanda White: Doing properly, thanks.
Jim Reese: You could have come a good distance since Athens, Ohio. Congratulations on all of the success.
Amanda White: Thanks.
Jim Reese: And it’s nice to see you once more.
Amanda White: Likewise.
Jim Reese: For our listeners, would you be type sufficient to share a bit bit about your training, work expertise, and a bit bit about Rugby ATL, and what your duties are there?
Amanda White: Yeah, completely. Properly, I graduated from The Ohio College in 2004 as a sports activities administration main. I moved to Atlanta in 2005, and that was after three unpaid internships in sports activities. And once I moved to Atlanta in 2005, I discovered it difficult to land a everlasting position in sports activities. So, I took a job with a commerce present firm engaged on occasions, as a result of, after all, transferable abilities actually matter. I made a decision to pursue my dream of getting a grasp’s, an MBA, earned that at Emory College Goizueta Enterprise Faculty the place I went to highschool whereas working at Endeavor from 2016 to 2018, and I knew that I actually, actually needed to pivot to the model facet.
So, as soon as I used to be completed with enterprise college, I made a decision I used to be going to have a really focused search. Finally, discovered a house on the Coca-Cola firm, and a everlasting position on their sports activities advertising and marketing workforce in North America, engaged on motorsports. Coca-Cola restructures each few years, and I used to be, sadly, caught up in a type of.
However, all issues for a cause, as a result of shortly thereafter, I discovered my house right here at Rugby ATL, working enterprise operations for the group. That features every part that occurs off the pitch, so operations, gross sales, enterprise growth, HR, advertising and marketing, social media—primarily, each enterprise perform inside knowledgeable sports activities group rolls as much as me.
Jim Reese: Wow. What a path. I keep in mind these conversations whenever you had been excited about going again to grad college. So it’s actually thrilling to see what you’re doing now. Would you share a bit bit about Rugby ATL for our listeners that may not be acquainted with Main League Rugby?
Amanda White: Main League Rugby presently has 13 groups everywhere in the United States. The 14th workforce is coming on-line in Miami. We play a 16-match season between the center of February to the center of June.
Jim Reese: Wonderful. There’s one factor once I regarded, I did a bit little bit of analysis on not simply Rugby ATL, however Main League Rugby, the factor that jumped out with the areas of the groups was the unbelievable quantity of journey cash that you will need to spend. I can solely think about how coordinating all that and the way costly that may be.
Amanda White: Yeah, it’s not low cost, that’s for certain. Definitely would get even simpler with extra league sponsors approaching. So American Airways is presently the airline accomplice of the league, however there’s nonetheless loads of coordination and logistics that associate with getting a workforce from A to B as a result of we do fly industrial comparability to an NFL workforce which will have their very own airplane.
Dr. Jim Reese: And as extra groups be part of the league that can assist restructure divisions and conferences and all that sort stuff, which can actually assist fairly a bit. So it is a sort of delicate query, so I’m going to method this gently. In your opinion, has being a lady hindered your path in any approach? And in that case, how did you make your approach by means of that?
Amanda White: Actually, the reply to that’s no. Once I was developing by means of the sports activities business, there have been definitely far fewer girls than management roles. And even now, it’s actually vital for ladies to have allies as they rise within the ranks. And I’ve had unbelievable mentors, like your self. I’ve been very lucky from an training standpoint. I’ve been in a position to examine the packing containers on engaged on the company facet, brand-side, and now the workforce facet. I might say that you just would possibly even get an additional look, since you are in actual fact a lady, since you may be in a sea of males interviewing for a similar place or going for a similar venture. So no, I might say it completely has not hindered my path by any means. If something, it might have been a bonus.
Jim Reese: That’s really very refreshing to listen to actually, as a result of that’s not at all times the case. So I’m very completely happy to listen to that. You talked about earlier about doing three unpaid internships, and it simply jogs my memory of once I was with the Broncos and that little factor on the backside of the job description that claims, and different duties as assigned, unloading tractor trailers and portray the underside of the stadium and all that different stuff that comes together with paying your dues. Is there something you’ll be able to share for the scholars which can be listening about tips on how to keep optimistic and possibly see the sunshine on the finish of the tunnel whenever you’re going by means of that grind?
Amanda White: Properly, right here’s what I’ll say about that. And also you’re proper, the three unpaid internships, it was a really small NASCAR observe west of Cleveland. It was really working within the Ohio College athletic division in numerous areas. After which it was additionally working for an ESPN highschool soccer convention that was, I suppose the sport was in the end broadcast on ESPN. But it surely doesn’t matter how far you go in sports activities, you might resolve two years in, it’s not for you. Could possibly be 10 years in, might be practically 20 years in like myself, that form of, we’ll simply use the phrase, the grunt work, it by no means stops. It by no means stops.
I used to be at an occasion, I used to be honored as a trailblazer as lady in sport right here in Atlanta. The CEO and the president of the Atlanta Dream was there, the CEO of the College Football Hall of Fame was there, and we had been all form of commiserating round, that stuff by no means stops the, they’re like, “We’re nonetheless stuffing present baggage, we’re nonetheless hauling signage.” I personally, with out exaggeration, was serving to load the tools truck final season and I might drive it over to the stadium on recreation days, as a result of we had those that didn’t present up or we had younger staff that weren’t sufficiently old to drive it but. So I believe it’s simply a part of the material of sports activities, and as followers trying in, it appears very horny and really thrilling and it’s, and we get to do some unbelievable issues, however that form of labor, lots of people simply don’t see it from the surface. And even at this level, this stage in my profession, we’re nonetheless doing it.
Jim Reese: Precisely. And also you’re proper, it by no means ends. And I’m unsure which management type that you just subscribe to, however clearly it’s at all times a mixture of some, however I’m an enormous fan of servant management. Simply roll up your sleeves and get down there and do what must be achieved to get the job achieved that that’s what your bosses need to see. They don’t need to see whining or complaining, it’s like, we’ve bought a activity to do, let’s go forward and knock it out. However I bought to inform you although, loading the truck after which driving it, I believe that’s what you name one thing coming full circle.
Amanda White: You’re completely proper. However I fall in the identical class, the servant management.
Jim Reese: Good. In my expertise, it actually motivates individuals to see that the oldsters which can be both main or managing aren’t afraid to get down there into the trenches with them and assist get issues achieved. So we’re actually attempting to focus with this sequence, particularly specializing in girls, we’re actually attempting to get extra girls , not simply in our program, however in sports activities, interval. Working in sports activities. Is there any recommendation that you’d have for ladies on the market which can be engaged on their levels in sports activities administration about issues that they might do to separate themselves from the competitors?
Amanda White: Sure. I believe I’ll reply this query two methods. First is, I keep in mind once I was popping out of Ohio College, I’m initially from the Cleveland space and IMG was born in Cleveland. And so all I needed to do was work at IMG, simply that was just like the North Star. And so for a very long time I utilized for jobs there, internships there, and I didn’t get a job there immediately for a number of years. So regardless that it didn’t come immediately, by no means lose sight of what your final objective is as a result of you’ll be able to at all times get there should you’re growing transferable abilities. But additionally don’t hesitate to go to the small golf equipment, the small groups, the small companies, since you are given a lot accountability at these organizations.
That’s what it was like once I went to the NASCAR weekly sequence, which is the underside sequence of NASCAR and I realized a lot there. Proper now, Rugby ATL is a distinct segment sports activities startup, however straight previous to this, I used to be on the Coca-Cola firm the place I had a field and my field was engaged on motorsports and it was a really particular approach of doing issues versus you come to a smaller group, you put on a variety of hats, you had been a variety of completely different individuals and no two days are of the identical. So what I might inform younger professionals is that don’t be afraid to go for the smaller alternatives, regardless that they might not be as shiny and as thrilling, each of which will likely be very priceless experiences.
Jim Reese: I neglect once I choose these little cliches up, if that is one I shared with you many many years in the past or if I picked it up alongside the best way, however one among my mentors sooner or later mentioned that typically it’s important to do one thing to comprehend you don’t need to do it. And what you had simply defined, Amanda, is that whenever you contact all these completely different areas, that’s how you determine the place your ardour is. And so I believe that’s incredible recommendation, I actually do. Okay, so million-dollar query, what’s subsequent for Amanda? What’s your final profession objective? The place would you prefer to go from right here and the rest you wish to share about?
Amanda White: I actually needed to examine the packing containers on company, model and workforce, so I’m fairly happy with how the trail has taken me right here. Once I take into consideration what’s subsequent, I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of position may be subsequent, however what I can inform you is that my husband and I actually need to stay abroad. So rugby is in actual fact a worldwide recreation. It’s potential {that a} rugby workforce in France or a workforce in Italy, I don’t know, or Germany might have a brand new chief. I don’t know. I’m nonetheless an unconventional candidate for rugby groups as a result of I didn’t have prior rugby expertise. I definitely had labored on a mess of different sports activities and leisure properties and style and music and culinary earlier than coming right here, so it gave me a special perspective. So I might say, in the end, the objective is to get abroad someplace, however I can’t converse to that timeline. I do not know what I might be doing, however that bug to work exterior of this nation very a lot exists.
Jim Reese: That’s actually thrilling that you’ve got so many potentialities. Mine is the Olympics. I’m hoping to have the ability to do some work in LA in ’26, so that may be an enormous examine mark for me so far as my profession. In order that’s actually the one factor left that I had on the profession bucket record.
Amanda White: That may be very thrilling.
Jim Reese: It will be, as a result of as , having expertise which you could deliver into the classroom, to me there’s nothing like that. You’re not simply educating from a textbook, you’re bringing, you’re sharing, oh my gosh, you needed to hearken to all my tales I don’t know what number of instances, nevertheless it’s these errors and people successes that you just share that folks can study from and you may’t discover that stuff within the books. And in order that’s why, such as you mentioned earlier about how the grunt work by no means stops. Properly, I don’t assume the volunteer work and the constructing your resume ever stops both in our subject, as a result of you’ll be able to at all times study extra. In my case, I share that with college students.
Amanda White: Yeah, I couldn’t agree extra. And I believe you’re proper, there may be a lot you study from a textbook, however listening to firsthand from somebody with expertise like your self or visitor audio system that you’ve got are available is totally invaluable, they’ll inform you all of the issues that aren’t essentially of their textbooks. I had somebody on my workforce this yr that he had gone by means of the coaching program on the Atlanta Braves and he got here right here and did a extremely unbelievable job, however he sort of realized that his coronary heart wasn’t in it. It wasn’t in sports activities. I imply, a part of it might be the truth that you don’t make some huge cash for a very long time, possibly ever.
You don’t make some huge cash and you’re employed a variety of hours and that may be actually difficult for your loved ones or your pals, possibly they simply don’t perceive 100% why you’ll be able to’t be there or why you’re employed so late, you’re employed such lengthy hours, you’re not paid sufficient. You do it since you like it, whether or not it’s what’s taking place on the sector or the court docket or the observe or possibly you simply love sports activities enterprise. I really like sports activities enterprise. For me, it’s much less about watching the sport. I really like going to Atlanta Hawks recreation and I watch a bit of the sport, however I’m additionally trying round on the sponsor signage and I need to hear what the followers are saying out on the concession stands. And I need to perceive why these manufacturers invested in that particular workforce. Who had been the individuals sitting within the seats? What are the ages? Why are they so passionate concerning the Hawks? So it’s sort of these form of nuances that excite me about being in sports activities. And it’s much less about fandom for me.
I believe as your college students begin to consider both going into this path or in the event that they’re already in it, why is it that you just need to be there? And the reply needs to be, and right here’s in an interviewing tip, should you’re interviewing for jobs or internships and somebody says, “Properly, why would you like this job?” Don’t say since you love sports activities. That could be a quite common reply. Go a bit deeper. What does it imply to you? Do you may have a childhood reminiscence that you just sort of maintain on to? Corporations and types and interviewing, you like to listen to tales like that to go a bit deeper. Discover your why.
Jim Reese: I believe that’s an important, nice level. And right here’s one thing I don’t assume , how about that? All these years, did I ever share what bought me began fascinated by sports activities? I don’t assume I did. So I haven’t advised many individuals this. I had an opportunity to fulfill Muhammad Ali once I was 12. His coaching camp was in Deer Lake, Pennsylvania, which was not too removed from the place I grew up. He was fascinating to me, I imply, he was his personal model. I imply all people is aware of. And that’s what actually bought me fascinated by sports activities and simply began that entire ardour, love of sports activities that…
Amanda, the opposite factor that you just mentioned a bit bit in the past that I believe is basically, actually vital for our viewers is that the those that refuse to take no, the those that maintain pushing ahead by means of the troublesome instances as a result of they love sports activities that a lot and are that captivated with it; when the cash’s not good and the hours are lengthy, these are the oldsters that make it. As a result of, it’s really easy to say, “I’m exhausted. The novelty has worn off. I’m out of right here, and I’m going to begin making some extra money.” However, those who persist and get by means of that, I believe, are those that actually make it and turn into profitable.
Amanda White: And I believe too, bear in mind, you’ve bought to be resilient, since you’re going to listen to a variety of nos. It’s nonetheless very aggressive to get into sports activities. Touchdown a everlasting position or an internship, it’s nonetheless actually aggressive. I’ve been impacted twice: restructured out, a part of an organizational huge layoff, your shopper runs out of cash, should you’re engaged on an company workforce. That’s actually frequent. So, simply sort of having a thick pores and skin, on the whole, will go a good distance. Discovering a solution to sort of be a bit little bit of a utility participant and never getting too pigeonholed into one perform will assist guarantee which you could be nimble, if it is advisable to be.
Jim Reese: That’s incredible recommendation. The extra you do, the extra expertise you may have, the extra belongings you contact, the extra priceless you turn into, with out query. Amanda, earlier than we log off for the day, is there the rest that you just wish to share with our listeners?
Amanda White: Yeah, I believe I do need to reiterate to your college students that you just’ve in all probability heard a number of instances that relationships are every part in sports activities. That may be very true. And as you sort of begin out, this can be very vital to get no matter expertise you’ll be able to, to fulfill as many individuals as you’ll be able to, and do it in a really real and genuine approach. As a result of, whenever you’re beginning out, individuals which can be extra senior, should you ask them for assist, they need to do it. That’s the suitable factor to do, as a result of we’re all sitting in these seats as a result of somebody or a number of individuals helped us alongside the best way. That they had conversations with us, they made suggestions for us. You want extra senior individuals in your nook. So, whenever you do get these alternatives, don’t take them frivolously. Use that point properly with the particular person you seize on the cellphone or over espresso, and be in contact with them. Once more, it’s not a one-off transactional-type dialog. These are doubtlessly individuals that can allow you to down the road, you’ll be in contact with for lengthy durations of time. As you go in your profession, there’ll be loads of alternatives so that you can return the favor to different younger and up-and-comers. So, to say that relationships are vital, is a big understatement, as a result of your community will likely be every part in sports activities.
Jim Reese: So true. Extra in our space than many others. I believe it’s vital in any job, however ours is such a small circle. You’re often one or two contacts away from nearly anyone. You realize that entire Kevin Bacon factor? It’s fairly small, it’s not seven levels in sports activities, it’s in all probability three levels. So Amanda, I can’t thanks sufficient for becoming a member of us at present. It’s so good to see you, and I sit up for catching up when we have now extra time.
Amanda White: Likewise. That sounds nice. Thanks a lot for having me.
Jim Reese: Oh my gosh, it’s our pleasure. Thanks. For our listeners, please don’t neglect to observe AMU and APU Sports Management on Instagram at AMU APU Sports activities or on LinkedIn. It’s been nice to be with you at present. Till subsequent time, that is Jim Reese. Wishing you one of the best.